March 3, 2019

Church Discipline

Posted in Christian Confession tagged , , , at 5:30 AM by chriswadams

D. It is the duty of the assembly to excommunicate anyone in the assembly who confesses belief in a false gospel or who confesses that at least some who believe in a false gospel are regenerate (including anyone who considers at least some universal atonement advocates to be regenerate), as such persons are clearly unbelievers.

(Deu 13:1) If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,

(Deu 13:2) and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, “Let’s go after other gods” (which you have not known) “and let’s serve them;”

(Deu 13:3) you shall not listen to the words of that prophet, or to that dreamer of dreams; for Yahweh your God is testing you, to know whether you love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

(Deu 13:4) You shall walk after Yahweh your God, fear him, keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and you shall serve him, and cling to him.

(Deu 13:5) That prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death, because he has spoken rebellion against Yahweh your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to draw you aside out of the way which Yahweh your God commanded you to walk in. So you shall remove the evil from among you.

(Psa 26:4) I have not sat with deceitful men, neither will I go in with hypocrites.

(Psa 26:5) I hate the assembly of evildoers, and will not sit with the wicked.

(Psa 101:4) A perverse heart will be far from me. I will have nothing to do with evil.

(Psa 101:7) He who practices deceit won’t dwell within my house. He who speaks falsehood won’t be established before my eyes.

(Mat 7:15) “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.

(Mat 7:16) By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

(Mat 7:17) Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit.

(Mat 7:18) A good tree can’t produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit.

(Mat 7:19) Every tree that doesn’t grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire.

(Mat 7:20) Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

(Mar 16:16) He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who disbelieves will be condemned.

(Joh 6:43) Therefore Jesus answered them, “Don’t murmur among yourselves.

(Joh 6:44) No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

(Joh 6:45) It is written in the prophets, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who hears from the Father, and has learned, comes to me.

(Joh 7:24) Don’t judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

(Rom 10:3) For being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they didn’t subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

(Rom 16:17) Now I beg you, brothers, look out for those who are causing the divisions and occasions of stumbling, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and turn away from them.

(1Co 10:21) You can’t both drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You can’t both partake of the table of the Lord, and of the table of demons.

(1Co 16:22) If any man doesn’t love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. Come, Lord!

(2Co 6:14) Don’t be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

(2Co 6:15) What agreement has Christ with Belial? Or what portion has a believer with an unbeliever?

(Gal 6:14) But far be it from me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

(Gal 6:15) For in Christ Jesus neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

(Gal 6:16) As many as walk by this rule, peace and mercy be on them, and on God’s Israel.

(Eph 5:6) Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience.

(Eph 5:7) Therefore don’t be partakers with them.

(Eph 5:8) For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as children of light,

(Eph 5:9) for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth,

(Eph 5:10) proving what is well pleasing to the Lord.

(Eph 5:11) Have no fellowship with the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather even reprove them.

(Eph 5:12) For the things which are done by them in secret, it is a shame even to speak of.

(1Ti 6:3) If anyone teaches a different doctrine, and doesn’t consent to sound words, the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness,

(1Ti 6:4) he is conceited, knowing nothing, but obsessed with arguments, disputes, and word battles, from which come envy, strife, insulting, evil suspicions,

(1Ti 6:5) constant friction of people of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. Withdraw yourself from such.

(2Ti 3:5) holding a form of godliness, but having denied its power. Turn away from these, also.

(1Jn 2:22) Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

(1Jn 2:23) Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn’t have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.

(1Jn 4:2) By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,

(1Jn 4:3) and every spirit who doesn’t confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the Antichrist, of whom you have heard that it comes. Now it is in the world already.

(2Jn 1:9) Whoever transgresses and doesn’t remain in the teaching of Christ, doesn’t have God. He who remains in the teaching, the same has both the Father and the Son.

(2Jn 1:10) If anyone comes to you, and doesn’t bring this teaching, don’t receive him into your house, and don’t welcome him,

(2Jn 1:11) for he who welcomes him participates in his evil deeds.

E. It is the duty of the assembly to rebuke and call to repentance anyone in the assembly who is openly disobedient to God’s law, including anyone who has sinned against another in the assembly. If the person persists in this sin without repentance, it is the duty of the assembly to excommunicate this person, as no such person will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

(Psa 101:7) He who practices deceit won’t dwell within my house. He who speaks falsehood won’t be established before my eyes.

(Psa 101:8) Morning by morning, I will destroy all the wicked of the land; to cut off all the workers of iniquity from Yahweh’s city.

(Mat 18:15) “If your brother sins against you, go, show him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained back your brother.

(Mat 18:16) But if he doesn’t listen, take one or two more with you, that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

(Mat 18:17) If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the assembly. If he refuses to hear the assembly also, let him be to you as a Gentile or a tax collector.

(Mat 18:18) Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in heaven.

(1Co 5:7) Purge out the old yeast, that you may be a new lump, even as you are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, has been sacrificed in our place.

(1Co 5:11) But as it is, I wrote to you not to associate with anyone who is called a brother who is a sexual sinner, or covetous, or an idolater, or a slanderer, or a drunkard, or an extortionist. Don’t even eat with such a person.

(1Co 5:12) For what do I have to do with also judging those who are outside? Don’t you judge those who are within?

(1Co 5:13) But those who are outside, God judges. “Put away the wicked man from among yourselves.”

(1Co 6:9) Or don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Don’t be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,

(1Co 6:10) nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortionists, will inherit God’s Kingdom.

(2Co 13:1) This is the third time I am coming to you. “At the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

(2Th 3:11) For we hear of some who walk among you in rebellion, who don’t work at all, but are busybodies.

(2Th 3:12) Now those who are that way, we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

(1Ti 5:20) Those who sin, reprove in the sight of all, that the rest also may be in fear.

(2Ti 3:2) For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

(2Ti 3:3) without natural affection, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, not lovers of good,

(2Ti 3:4) traitors, headstrong, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God;

(2Ti 3:5) holding a form of godliness, but having denied its power. Turn away from these, also.

(2Ti 3:6) For some of these are people who creep into houses, and take captive gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,

(2Ti 3:7) always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

(1Jn 2:15) Don’t love the world or the things that are in the world. If anyone loves the world, the Father’s love isn’t in him.

(1Jn 2:16) For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, isn’t the Father’s, but is the world’s.

(Rev 21:8) But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

F. If anyone in the assembly who has been rebuked (but not excommunicated) repents of sinning against a brother or of any other open disobedience to God’s law, the assembly is to forgive him and restore him to fellowship.

(Mat 18:20) For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the middle of them.”

(Mat 18:21) Then Peter came and said to him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Until seven times?”

(2Co 2:5) But if any has caused sorrow, he has caused sorrow, not to me, but in part (that I not press too heavily) to you all.

(2Co 2:6) This punishment which was inflicted by the many is sufficient for such a one;

(2Co 2:7) so that on the contrary you should rather forgive him and comfort him, lest by any means such a one should be swallowed up with his excessive sorrow.

(2Co 2:8) Therefore I beg you to confirm your love toward him.

(Gal 6:1) Brothers, even if a man is caught in some fault, you who are spiritual must restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; looking to yourself so that you also aren’t tempted.

August 9, 2015

APSit190 vs. the Gospel

Posted in biblesupport.com tagged , , at 4:00 AM by chriswadams

The verses I posted last week were immediately taken down from biblesupport.com, but a user with the handle “APSit190” responded. He never addressed the verses, of course, just complained about how divisive I was being. Here is my response to him: Read the rest of this entry »

April 22, 2012

Mark DeYoung vs. the Gospel, pt. 3

Posted in Mark DeYoung tagged , , , , , at 4:00 AM by chriswadams

Recently, I had an email discussion with a man named Mark DeYoung, in response to some things I had written to Ken Lokken. This is DeYoung’s final response to me. Note that he outright refused to discuss any biblical issues unless I first spoke peace to him. Note that he also accused me of being “unwilling” to discuss any biblical issues! Talk about hypocrisy.

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From: Mark DeYoung

To: Chris Adams, Ken Lokken, Vic Sciavone, etc.

January 27, 2012

Re: Emailing: There is One Elohim

Ken and Vic, 

Jesus warned us of people like Christopher…

Because he will not listen, Jesus said there comes a time we must shake the dust off of our feet, take the peace with us that is given by our God and His son Jesus.

There is never a time that such angry belligerence is considered acceptable, especially in the discussion of the Bible, our faith and the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

Here is Jesus words of instruction and also word of warning!

Matthew 10:13-20  If the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it; but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.  (14)  If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town.  (15)  Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.  (16)  “See, I am sending you out like sheep into the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.  (17)  Beware of them, for they will hand you over to councils and flog you in their synagogues;  (18)  and you will be dragged before governors and kings because of me, as a testimony to them and the Gentiles.  (19)  When they hand you over, do not worry about how you are to speak or what you are to say; for what you are to say will be given to you at that time;  (20)  for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

Christopher, I have spent the last few days since your last email that I was aware of being sent out, as to my response.

Your refusal to “Come and let us reason together” concerning the Word of God, and your constantly foul spirited lambasting of anyone that refuses to accept your definition of God and the plan of salvation, has caused me to realize that this is the best time to say, “Good Day to you sir.” 

Mark D.

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At this point, Chris Duncan (who runs the outstanding blog, Agrammatos) jumped in, nicely summarizing the debate to that point:

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From: Chris Duncan

To: Mark DeYoung, Chris Adams, etc.

January 28, 2012

Re: Emailing: There is One Elohim

It looks to me like Mark DeYoung is exhibiting angry belligerence toward my brother in Christ, Christopher Adams. Initially, DeYoung was willing to count a Trinitarian as his brother in the Lord since, evidently, he believes the true identity of Jesus Christ to be a non-essential doctrine over which true Christians may disagree. What kind of sense does it make to solemnly warn a person over a non-essential or secondary doctrine?

Does Vic Schiavone think the true identity of Jesus Christ is a non-essential doctrine, over which true Christians may disagree? It seems so, since he just wished nothing but blessing upon him, in his last e-mail. DeYoung is belligerently warning Christopher, and Schiavone is “lovingly” blessing Christopher. DeYoung and Schiavone cannot get on the same page regarding someone who stubbornly refuses to relinquish his belief in a doctrine they believe to be non-essential.

In John 8:24, Jesus connects disbelief in His true identity with a person dying in their sins — evidently, a very small hint of mean-spirited and unChrist-like belligerence is being exhibited here.

More angry, impatient belligerence:

“Who is the liar, except the one denying, saying that Jesus is not the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one denying the Father and the Son. Everyone denying the Son does not have the Father. The one confessing the Son also has the Father” (1 John 2:22-23; emphasis mine).

Is a Son who merely came into existence at the time of Bethlehem being described here by John? Does it look like John thinks the true identity of the Son is something over which true Christians may disagree? Not unless, you believe John is calling true Christians antichrists, liars, and those who do not have the Father. So, unlike some of the non-Trinitarians on this list, the apostle John does not believe this is a secondary issue.

Do the non-Trinitarians believe that Trinitarians such as Christopher Adams and myself are denying the Son? How about you, Mr. Buzzard? I’ve seen your debate with James White and Michael Brown (both damnable heretics, by the way), where they voiced “concern” for you and your debate partner — but they lacked the spiritual spine to actually go as far the apostle John went (James White even referenced the apostle John’s words). Mr. Buzzard, in the debate, you had seemingly echoed their “concern” as well:

Sir Anthony:  “… same as we. I’ve been told I don’t believe in God because I believe there’s a devil. I’ve been told I don’t speak in tongues enough so I couldn’t be saved. I’ve heard this from every single denomination. This is nothing new….”

Same as we? What does that mean? Are you saying that you, likewise, are “concerned” over the souls of tolerant Calvinist heretic James White and Arminian heretic, Michael Brown? What’s with the lack of certitude on your, James White’s, and Michael Brown’s parts? Why not come right out and say it like the apostle John did? Can’t bring yourselves to be that mean and belligerent?

Chris Duncan

April 15, 2012

Mark DeYoung vs. the Gospel, pt. 2

Posted in Mark DeYoung tagged , , , at 4:00 AM by chriswadams

Recently, I had an email discussion with a man named Mark DeYoung, in response to some things I had written to Ken Lokken. This is DeYoung’s response to my first email.

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From: Mark DeYoung

To: Chris Adams

January 23, 2012

Re: Fw: Demon possesion; a few thoughts

Christopher,

Your boldness is commendable in the beginning of this email, the belligerence by the end is unnecessary. The line “And I must warn you that you are going on in your simplicity, unaware of the danger to your soul. You do not believe in the deity of Christ, and therefore, you do not believe the Gospel. You are lost, and your deeds are evil. Again, the Gospel is:” That is totally uncalled for, and shows a lack of God’s love and desire for all men to come torepentance.

Jesus when preparing the disciples for his departure said this,

John 13:34-35 (NRSV) I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. (35) By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

If you truly thought that I am a lost sinner undone in my sins headed straight for a Devil’s hell to be tormented for all eternity for my lack of faith, and you spoke to me that way; then my blood would be on your hand’s when you stand before God to give an account for actions.

Now I am willing to continue, if you are willing to discuss this not only as Christians, but as disciples of Jesus Christ, which means we will correspond with compassion, gentleness and meekness. If these are acceptable terms then we will continue.

We can start with any one of the things that you listed in this last email. But we aren’t going to refer to your web pages, spell everything out in the email including the passages of Scripture you wish to refer to.

But let’s discuss one thing at a time, I’m a full time pastor of a church and my time is limited when it comes to email correspondence.

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From: Chris Adams

To: Mark DeYoung

January 23, 2012

Re: Fw: Demon possesion; a few thoughts

Mark –

You wrote:

“Your boldness is commendable in the beginning of this email, the belligerence by the end is unnecessary. The line “And I must warn you that you are going on in your simplicity, unaware of the danger to your soul. You do not believe in the deity of Christ, and therefore, you do not believe the Gospel. You are lost, and your deeds are evil. Again, the Gospel is:” That is totally uncalled for, and shows a lack of God’s love and desire for all men to come to repentance.”

What I was trying to show you is that the “simpleton … go[ing] blindly on” referred to in your own signature, is in fact you. I was hoping to shake you out of your simplicity, and show you the true nature of the danger you face.

As for my “lack of God’s love”; in the first place, God does not want all men without exception to come to repentance (Rom 9:17), but all men without distinction (Col 3:11, 1Ti 2:1-4).

Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very thing I raised you up, so that I might show forth My power in you, and so that My name might be publicized in all the earth.”

Col 3:11 where there is no Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythian, slave or freeman, but Christ is all things and in all.

1Ti 2: (1) First of all then, I exhort that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made on behalf of all men, (2) for kings and all the ones being in high position, that we may lead a tranquil and quiet existence in all godliness and dignity. (3) For this is good and acceptable before God our deliverer, (4) who desires all men to be delivered and to come to a full knowledge of truth.

Of course, you’re not complaining about God’s lack of love, but about mine. The problem is that you apparently equate love with me telling you that everything is right with your soul, and everything is right between you and God. But it isn’t, and I won’t lie, and tell you it is.

If a man was sleeping in a burning house would it be more loving to let him enjoy his restful slumber, or would it be more loving to shout and annoy him?

Was Christ being loving towards the Pharisees in Matthew ch. 23, when he called them a brood of vipers and whitewashed tombs? Was Ezekiel being unloving towards the Jews when he described their apostasy in repulsively sexual terms? Was Paul being unloving when he said he wished that the Judaizers would emasculate themselves?

Mat 23: (14) Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour the houses of widows, and pray at length as a pretext. Because of this you will receive more abundant judgment. (15) Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you go about the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte; and when he has become so, you make him twofold more a son of Hell than yourselves. (16) Woe to you, blind guides, who say, Whoever swears by the Holy Place, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the Holy Place is a debtor. (17) Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold, or the Holy Place that sanctifies the gold?

Eze 16:25 At the head of every highway you have built your high place, and have made your beauty despised. And you have parted your feet to all who passed by, and have multiplied your fornications.

Gal 5:12 I would that the ones causing you to doubt will cut themselves off.

Mark, I do hope that you will come to repentance, but that means that you need to repent; that is, you need to be saved. How else should I tell you to come to repentance, except by telling you that you are lost? If I told you that you were saved, there wouldn’t be any need for repentance.

But there’s more. In previous correspondence, Ken Lokken told me this: “I dare say if you continue in your beliefs now that you are informed..you certainly will not be part of the kingdom and that means you are LOST!” So, Mark, are you going to rebuke Ken, tell him that this was uncalled for, and shows a lack of God’s love, and desire for all men to come to repentance? If so, I want to be on the cc list.

You wrote:

“Jesus when preparing the disciples for his departure said this,

John 13:34-35 (NRSV) I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. (35) By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Mark, you don’t believe the Gospel. Therefore, you are not my brother in Christ. Your father is the devil, and you are an enemy of the true God, the true Christ, and the true Gospel.

You also wrote:

“If you truly thought that I am a lost sinner undone in my sins headed straight for a Devil’s hell to be tormented for all eternity for my lack of faith, and you spoke to me that way; then my blood would be on your hand’s when you stand before God to give an account for actions.”

This is the opposite of the truth. See Eze 3:18-19. I have delivered my soul, and the responsibility to repent is now yours.

Eze 3: (18) In My saying to the wicked, Surely you shall die; and you do not warn him, and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, he, the wicked, shall die in his iniquity. But I will require his blood at your hand. (19) And you, because you have warned the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his way, he, the wicked, shall die in his iniquity. But you have delivered your soul.

You also wrote:

“Now I am willing to continue, if you are willing to discuss this not only as Christians, but as disciples of Jesus Christ, which means we will correspond with compassion, gentleness and meekness. ”

Again, was Christ using compassion, gentleness, and meekness towards the Pharisees in Matthew ch. 23, when he called them a brood of vipers and whitewashed tombs? Was Ezekiel using compassion, gentleness, and meekness towards the Jews when he described their apostasy in repulsively sexual terms? Was Paul using compassion, gentleness, and meekness when he said he wished that the Judaizers would emasculate themselves?

The answer to all three questions is: Yes, they were. And if you disagree, then you need to adjust your concept of compassion, gentleness, and meekness, or else admit that God inspired these men to say and write sinful things (which would be blasphemy).

You also wrote:

“We can start with any one of the things that you listed in this last email. But we aren’t going to refer to your web pages, spell everything out in the email including the passages of Scripture you wish to refer to.”

It seems like not too long ago somebody said this to me: “Christopher I hope you don’t mind the copy and paste, but why should the wheel be reinvented? ” Well, good question. Why should I reinvent the wheel? For this post, I have pasted in the passages I referred to, but I have also already written a good deal of stuff that is relevant to this argument, including the Christian Confession of Faith, a couple of articles, and a dozen pages of correspondence with Ken Lokken. Do you really want me copy and paste all of that here? If you’re willing to read all of that, it’s just as easy to click a link.

Furthermore, you’re not the only person that that post was sent to. There are quite a few names on that cc list, and if any of them were interested in the previous material, they deserved to have the link.

If you want to continue this exchange, fine, but this is not a friendly discussion between brothers in Christ. Nor is it a discussion about trivial matters. It is a discussion about the fundamentals of the Gospel, and that has eternal consequences. If you believe in a false Gospel to your dying breath, you will spend eternity in hell.

Mar 16:16 The one believing and being baptized will be saved. And the one not believing will be condemned.

Rom 10: (1) Brothers, truly my heart’s pleasure and supplication to God on behalf of Israel is for it to be saved. (2) For I testify to them that they have zeal to God, but not according to knowledge. (3) For being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to the righteousness of God.

Christopher Adams.