The following is part two of an e-mail I wrote a few months ago. The first part can be found here.
3. It is flat out a lie. In Gethsemane, Jesus, the Son of God, God Himself (John 1:1), prayed an illogical paradoxical contradictory prayer. He prayed, “Take this cup away from Me” (Mark 14:36). That request was against the logic of God’s perfect eternal plan for both Christ and the salvation of mankind. It was paradoxical to be asking for that which cannot be. It was contradictory to God’s prophetic word (e.g. Daniel 9:26; Isaiah 53; etc.). Sovereign Redeemer Assembly (outsidethecamp.org) has a god of their own making. They have “changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptiable man” (Romans 1:23).
Christ’s prayer in Gethsemane may not be easy to understand from a human perspective, but it hardly demonstrates that God is “illogical paradoxical [or] contradictory”, especially when it was accompanied with the request, “Yet not what I will, but what You will .” Christ was in perfect submission to the will of the Father, and for Mr. Fish to suggest otherwise is simply repulsive.
In this confession under “II. God, C. Divine Attributes” they write,
“1. God is all-knowing, everywhere present, unchangeable, and not able to be limited.”
The last phrase, “not able to be limited” is again a lie, as Jesus said in His impossible prayer in the garden, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for You” (Mark 14:36). The eternal infinite all-powerful God can be limited. His ability to be limited is well illustrated in His wrestling match with Jacob. Even after dislocating Jacob’s hip, the Lord still requested for release saying, “Let Me go, for the day breaks” and Jacob refuses saying, “I will not let you go unless You bless me” (Genesis 32:26). The Lord then blesses him, and Jacob releases him. Jacob “struggled with God” and prevailed (Genesis 32:28; Hosea 12:3-4).
Evidently, Darwin is getting as irrational as he thinks God is. How the story of Jacob wrestling with God proves that God can be limited is beyond me.
Under “II. God, D. Predestination. 1. Election” they write,
“d. When Scripture speaks of God’s covenant, it does not mean a conditional agreement or contract between two parties; rather, it means a bond of friendship and fellowship that is unilaterally enacted by God. [Gen 15:12-21; Lev 26:44-45; Deu 4:31; 7:6-8; Jdg 2:1; 2Ch 13:5; Psa 89:3; Isa 54:10; 55:5; Heb 6:17-18; 8:10]”
They lie here as well when they say, “it does not mean a conditional agreement”. God’s covenant is both unilateral (e.g. Romans 8:29-39; etc.) and conditional (Romans 11:20-22; 2 Timothy 2:11-12; Hebrews 10:26; etc.). Of course, when you are stuck on one’s own idea of logic, contradiction, and paradox, then truth is therefore rejected based on a man-made standard of logic, contradiction, and paradox.
And now we see why Darwin wants to have a God who is irrational: he wants a covenant that is both unilateral (thereby exalting God’s grace), and at the same time conditional (thereby exalting Man’s free will). Again, notice that Mr. Fish makes no effort whatsoever to deal with the verses put forth by the Confession. Let’s look at a few of those verses:
Deu 7: (6) For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God. Jehovah your God has chosen you to be His own treasure out of all the people on the face of the earth. (7) Jehovah did not set His love on you or choose you because you were more in number than any people, for you were the fewest of all peoples. (8) But because Jehovah loved you, and because He kept the oath which He swore to your fathers, Jehovah has caused you to go out with a strong hand, and redeemed you from the house of slaves, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Isa 54: (10) For the mountains shall depart and the hills be removed, but My mercy shall not depart from you; nor shall the covenant of My peace be removed, says Jehovah who has pity on you.
Heb 8: (10) Because this is the covenant which I will covenant with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord, giving My laws into their mind, and I will write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.”
These verses describe God’s covenant with his people, and there is no conditionality here whatsoever. In fact, these verses demonstrate that the covenant God made with his people is completely unconditional.
Now for the verses that Mr. Fish refers to:
Rom 11: (20) Well! For unbelief they were broken off. And you stand by faith. Do not be highminded, but fear. (21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, fear that it may be He will not spare you either. (22) Behold, then, the kindness and severity of God: On those having fallen, severity. But on you, kindness, if you continue in the kindness. Otherwise, you will also be cut off.
God’s covenant with his elect is not actually in view here. The context of this quote is the cutting off of the Jewish nation as the exclusive people of God, and this verse deals with the bringing in of the Gentiles as a whole, not the election of individual Gentiles. The nature of God’s covenant with elect individuals is spelled out a few verses later:
Rom 11: (27) And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins. … (29) For the free gifts and the calling of God are without repentance.
Darwin also refers to:
2Ti 2: (11) Faithful is the Word: for if we died with Him , we also shall live with Him ; (12) if we endure, we shall also reign with Him ; if we deny Him, that One will deny us;
The non-conditional nature of this verse is actually shown in the very next verse:
2Ti 2: (13) if we are unfaithful, that One remains faithful; He is not able to deny Himself.
Finally, Darwin also refers to:
Heb 10: (26) For if we are willfully sinning after receiving the full knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice concerning sins,
The people being spoken of here are not those who were truly converted, but only said they were, perhaps even deceiving themselves. They are like the seed that is sown on stony ground (Mat 13:20-21): they had “received the word with joy” and had “the full knowledge of the truth” but they “had no root in themselves”, so when persecution arose they fell away and left the assemblies (Heb 10:25). That didn’t show that they failed to meet a condition of any kind; instead it showed that they had never been regenerated to begin with.
Under “II. God, D. Predestination. 2. Reprobation” they write,
“e. God does not have any love toward the reprobate or any desire to save them,”
That is in direct opposition to Jeremiah 8:19-9:6; Micah 1:3-9; John 3:16; Romans 11:32; 1 Timothy 2:4; etc..
Let’s take a look at the verses Darwin mentions:
Jer 8: (19) Behold, the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people from a distant land! Is not Jehovah in Zion? Or is not her king in her? Why have they provoked Me with their carved images, with foreign vanities? (20) Harvest has passed; the summer has ended, and we are not delivered. (21) For the breaking of the daughter of my people, I am broken. I mourn; horror has taken hold on me. (22) Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no healer there? Why then has the healing of the daughter of My people not come? (9:1) Oh, that my head were waters and my eyes a fountain of tears, that I might weep day and night for the slain of the daughter of my people! (2) Oh, that I had a lodging place for travelers in the wilderness, that I might leave my people and go away from them! For they are all adulterers, an assembly of treacherous ones. (3) And they bend their tongues, their bow is a lie. And they are not mighty for the truth on the earth, for they go from evil to evil. They also do not know Me, says Jehovah. (4) Let everyone be on guard against his neighbor, and do not trust any brother. For every brother will supplant, and every neighbor will walk as a slanderer. (5) And everyone will deceive his neighbor, and they will not speak the truth. They have taught their tongue to speak lies. They weary themselves to commit iniquity. (6) Your home is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know Me says Jehovah.
Mic 1: (3) For, behold, Jehovah is coming out of His place, and He will come down and walk on the high places of the earth. (4) And the mountains shall melt under Him, and the valleys shall cleave themselves, as wax before the fire, as waters poured out on a steep place. (5) All this is against the transgression of Jacob, and against the sins of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of Jacob? Is it not Samaria? And what are the high places of Judah? Are they not Jerusalem? (6) And I will make Samaria into ruins of the field, planting places for a vineyard. And I will pour down her stones into the valley, and I will uncover her foundations. (7) And all her carved images shall be beaten to pieces, and all her gifts for harlotry shall be burned with fire. And I will make all her idols a desolation. For she gathered it from the reward of a harlot, and they shall return to the reward of a harlot. (8) Because of this I will wail and howl; I will go stripped and naked; I will make a wailing like the jackal, yea, mourn like the daughters of an ostrich. (9) For her wounds are incurable; for it has come to Judah; it has reached to the gate of my people, to Jerusalem.
These two lengthy sections show God’s sorrowing over the apostasy of national Israel, but by no means shows that God loves those who go to Hell. National Israel was symbolic of God’s spiritual Israel, who will never end up in Hell.
Joh 3: (16) For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1Ti 2: (4) who desires all men to be delivered and to come to a full knowledge of truth.
These two verses were already explained in the Confession in section II.D.2.e:
Scripture, in speaking of God’s love for “all men” and “the world” is not speaking of all men without exception. Rather, these words refer to God’s love for all men without distinction – that is, regardless of their nationality or status.
Rom 11: (32) For God shut up all in disobedience, that He may show mercy to all.
As I said above, God’s covenant with his elect is not actually in view here. The context of this quote is the cutting off of the Jewish nation as the exclusive people of God, and this verse deals with the bringing in of all the nationalities of the Gentiles.
If God loves those in Hell, then he will be eternally sad that he couldn’t save everyone he wanted. Poor God. Poor, helpless, ineffective, powerless God. If that is the ‘God’ that Darwin Fish wants, he is welcome to it. I prefer the God of the Bible, who does what ever he pleases, and no-one can oppose him (Psa 115:3, Dan 4:35, Rom 9:21).
Under “III. Man. B. Human Nature After The Fall and Before Regeneration” they write,
“1. Adam and Eve sinned by believing the devil’s lie and eating the forbidden fruit. [Gen 3:1-6]”
Adam did not believe the devil’s lie (1 Timothy 2:14).
Here is 1Ti 2:13-14:
1Ti 2: (13) For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (14) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived has come to be in transgression;
Notice the context: Paul’s point isn’t even about Adam; it’s really about Eve, and the reason for her subjection to Adam in the family order. Adam was not directly deceived by the Devil as Eve was, but he certainly “believed the devil’s lie”, as the Confession says.
But according to Darwin, the devil didn’t even lie:
Under this same section in “3.” speaking of the serpent’s words to Eve they write,
“according to the devil’s lie, ‘You shall be as God.'”
That was/is not a lie. It was true on that accord what the devil said. They would indeed “be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5) as the text further illustrates. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and when they ate of it they became as God knowing good and evil.
Adam and Eve did indeed come to “know good and evil” in that they themselves became evil, but that’s not at all what the devil was implying. The implication was that God was lying, and Adam and Eve would not ever die from eating the fruit, but become “as God” in everything. So, yes, the devil did lie, as Jesus himself testified:
Joh 8: (44) You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you desire to do. That one was a murderer from the beginning, and he has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own, because he is a liar, and the father of it.
Under “IV. Jesus Christ, C. His Work” they write,
“2. . . . while upon the cross, Jesus Christ, as a perfect representative, substitute, and sacrifice for His people, became a curse for His people and suffered the unmitigated fury of God the Father, which was equivalent to suffering the very pains of hell.”
The Bible does not teach it “was equivalent to suffering the very pains of hell”. They should not be adding a concept to God’s word that is not there (Proverbs 30:5-6).
Well, let’s see if the concept is in God’s word:
2Co 5: (21) For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Gal 3: (13) Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone having been hung on a tree;”
1Pe 3: (18) Because even Christ once suffered concerning sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God; indeed being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;
In order to be a substitute for his people, Jesus had to suffer what his people deserved. And what they deserved was the torment of eternal hell for their sins. Thus “Jesus Christ, as a perfect representative, substitute, and sacrifice for His people, became a curse for His people and suffered the unmitigated fury of God the Father, which was equivalent to suffering the very pains of hell.”
Mr. Fish continues:
Moreover, Sovereign Redeemer Assembly prove themselves to be devils (slanderers, διαβολοι [diaboloi] “devils” 2 Timothy 3:3) under “IV. Jesus Christ. C. His Work” where they write,
“6. Those who deny the effectual work of Jesus Christ, claiming instead that the blood of Jesus Christ atoned for everyone without exception (including those in hell), deny the very heart of the gospel. They do not believe that it is the work of Jesus Christ alone that makes the difference between salvation and damnation; instead, these self-righteous boasters believe that it is the effort of the sinner that makes the difference between salvation and damnation. These blasphemers deny that Jesus Christ made full satisfaction for sins and that Jesus Christ accomplished and ensured salvation for all whom He represented. They trample underfoot the precious blood of Jesus Christ, treating it as something of no value. They glory and boast in themselves, for whatever one believes makes the difference between salvation and damnation is what one glories and boasts in. There is not a single one of these blasphemers who is a child of God. [Psa 25:14; 74:18; 94:4; 139:20; Pro 30:12-13; Isa 28:14-18; 42:8; 48:11; Joh 16:8-14; Rom 3:27-28; 4:2; 10:3; 16:17-18; 1Co 2:12; 2Co 10:3-6; Gal 1:8-9; 6:14; Eph 2:8-9; Phi 3:18-19; 1Ti 4:1; 2Ti 3:2-5; 4:3-4; Heb 10:29; 1Jo 2:22-23; 4:6; 2Jo 9]”
In the above quote they slander those who believe the truth (Christ did die even for those in hell) and falsely accuse them of being “blasphemers” who “believe that it is the effort of the sinner that makes the difference between salvation and damnation”. They accuse them of denying that “Jesus Christ made full satisfaction for sins”, of trampling “underfoot the precious blood of Jesus Christ, treating it as something of no value”, and not being “a child of God”. Believing Christ died for even those in hell does not in any way dictate such slanderous accusations. But, according to their logic, it does.
If Christ died even for those in Hell, then his work on the cross was, in and of itself, insufficient to save everyone for whom it was intended. And that is blasphemy. It denies that Jesus made full satisfaction for sins, treats the blood of Christ as a thing of no value (especially when compared with the Almighty Free Will), and is a glorying and boasting in self. It is self that makes the difference, rather than the work of Christ.
In condemning the Christian Confession of Faith, Darwin Fish has shown us that he has a bible that is full of paradox and contradictions, a god who will be eternally sad that he was unable to save vast multitudes of people he loves, and a christ whose blood was unable to pay the sin-debt of vast multitudes of people he loves. Then he wonders why we call him and his brothers in Satan blasphemers. Darwin Fish’s false gospel of a powerless christ, uncertain promises, and the worship of man’s Free Will is from the pit of Hell, and will carry him back there if he dies believing it. Let everyone who believes it repent and believe the true Gospel:
The gospel is God’s promise to save His people, giving them all the blessings of salvation from regeneration to final glory, conditioned exclusively on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, totally apart from the sinner’s works and efforts. It reveals the righteousness of God – how God is just to justify the ungodly based on the work of Jesus Christ alone. The gospel is not merely the fact that Jesus lived, died, and rose again, considered apart from the purpose of these truths, which were accomplished to establish a righteousness for all whom Jesus represented. [Gen 15:5-6; Psa 103:2-12; 130:3-4; Isa 1:18; 45:21-25; Jer 33:14-16; Mat 1:21; Joh 3:16; Act 13:32-39; Rom 1:16-17; 3:21-26; 4:5-8,13-25; 10:4,15; 1Co 15:1-8; 2Co 1:20; 5:21; Eph 1:3-2:22; 3:6; Col 1:5; 2Ti 1:1,9-10; Heb 10:4-17]