April 22, 2012
Mark DeYoung vs. the Gospel, pt. 4
Recently, I had an email discussion with a man named Mark DeYoung, in response to some things I had written to Ken Lokken. This is DeYoung’s final response to me. Note that he outright refused to discuss any biblical issues unless I first spoke peace to him. Note that he also accused me of being “unwilling” to discuss any biblical issues! Talk about hypocrisy.
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From: Mark DeYoung
To: Chris Adams, Ken Lokken, Vic Sciavone, etc.
January 27, 2012
Re: Emailing: There is One Elohim
Ken and Vic,
Jesus warned us of people like Christopher…
Because he will not listen, Jesus said there comes a time we must shake the dust off of our feet, take the peace with us that is given by our God and His son Jesus.
There is never a time that such angry belligerence is considered acceptable, especially in the discussion of the Bible, our faith and the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.
Here is Jesus words of instruction and also word of warning!
Matthew 10:13-20 If the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it; but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. (14) If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. (15) Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. (16) ”See, I am sending you out like sheep into the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. (17) Beware of them, for they will hand you over to councils and flog you in their synagogues; (18) and you will be dragged before governors and kings because of me, as a testimony to them and the Gentiles. (19) When they hand you over, do not worry about how you are to speak or what you are to say; for what you are to say will be given to you at that time; (20) for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
Christopher, I have spent the last few days since your last email that I was aware of being sent out, as to my response.
Your refusal to “Come and let us reason together” concerning the Word of God, and your constantly foul spirited lambasting of anyone that refuses to accept your definition of God and the plan of salvation, has caused me to realize that this is the best time to say, “Good Day to you sir.”
Mark D.
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At this point, Chris Duncan (who runs the outstanding blog Agrammatos) jumped in, nicely summarizing the debate to that point:
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From: Chris Duncan
To: Mark DeYoung, Chris Adams, etc.
January 28, 2012
Re: Emailing: There is One Elohim
It looks to me like Mark DeYoung is exhibiting angry belligerence toward my brother in Christ, Christopher Adams. Initially, DeYoung was willing to count a Trinitarian as his brother in the Lord since, evidently, he believes the true identity of Jesus Christ to be a non-essential doctrine over which true Christians may disagree. What kind of sense does it make to solemnly warn a person over a non-essential or secondary doctrine?
Does Vic Schiavone think the true identity of Jesus Christ is a non-essential doctrine, over which true Christians may disagree? It seems so, since he just wished nothing but blessing upon him, in his last e-mail. DeYoung is belligerently warning Christopher, and Schiavone is “lovingly” blessing Christopher. DeYoung and Schiavone cannot get on the same page regarding someone who stubbornly refuses to relinquish his belief in a doctrine they believe to be non-essential.
In John 8:24, Jesus connects disbelief in His true identity with a person dying in their sins — evidently, a very small hint of mean-spirited and unChrist-like belligerence is being exhibited here.
More angry, impatient belligerence:
“Who is the liar, except the one denying, saying that Jesus is not the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one denying the Father and the Son. Everyone denying the Son does not have the Father. The one confessing the Son also has the Father” (1 John 2:22-23; emphasis mine).
Is a Son who merely came into existence at the time of Bethlehem being described here by John? Does it look like John thinks the true identity of the Son is something over which true Christians may disagree? Not unless, you believe John is calling true Christians antichrists, liars, and those who do not have the Father. So, unlike some of the non-Trinitarians on this list, the apostle John does not believe this is a secondary issue.
Do the non-Trinitarians believe that Trinitarians such as Christopher Adams and myself are denying the Son? How about you, Mr. Buzzard? I’ve seen your debate with James White and Michael Brown (both damnable heretics, by the way), where they voiced “concern” for you and your debate partner — but they lacked the spiritual spine to actually go as far the apostle John went (James White even referenced the apostle John’s words). Mr. Buzzard, in the debate, you had seemingly echoed their “concern” as well:
Sir Anthony: “… same as we. I’ve been told I don’t believe in God because I believe there’s a devil. I’ve been told I don’t speak in tongues enough so I couldn’t be saved. I’ve heard this from every single denomination. This is nothing new….”
Same as we? What does that mean? Are you saying that you, likewise, are “concerned” over the souls of tolerant Calvinist heretic James White and Arminian heretic, Michael Brown? What’s with the lack of certitude on your, James White’s, and Michael Brown’s parts? Why not come right out and say it like the apostle John did? Can’t bring yourselves to be that mean and belligerent?
Chris Duncan
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May 21, 2010
The Definition of the Gospel, pt. 3
Previously, I had given a definition of the Gospel, taken from the Christian Confession of Faith. In my last post, I wrote about how the person of Jesus Christ is at the heart of the Gospel. Today, let’s look at the work of Jesus Christ, and how it is also at the heart of the Gospel.
Here is how the Christian Confession of Faith defines the work of Jesus Christ:
The consummate act of obedience that Jesus Christ paid to the law was in suffering the ultimate penalty for the disobedience of His people that the law demanded. Thus, while upon the cross, Jesus Christ, as a perfect representative, substitute, and sacrifice for His people, became a curse for His people and suffered the unmitigated fury of God the Father, which was equivalent to suffering the very pains of hell. This was not for any guilt He had contracted Himself but for the sins of His people. Their guilt was imputed to Him, and He suffered the penalty their sins deserved. His finished work on the cross appeased God’s wrath in full toward all for whom He died and paid the ransom price in full for all for whom He died, guaranteeing the salvation of all for whom He died. [Gen 22:13; Exo 12:3-13; Lev 16:21-22; 17:11; Psa 22:1-18; 32:1; Isa 53:1-12; Dan 9:24-26; Zec 13:7; Mat 26:28; 27:35-50; Mar 15:24-37; Luk 23:33-46; 24:46; Joh 11:49-52; 19:16-30; Act 17:3; 20:28; Rom 3:24-25; 5:6-11; 1Co 1:30; 5:7; 6:20; 15:3; 2Co 5:21; Gal 1:4; 2:20; 3:13; 4:5; Eph 1:7; 2:13-17; Col 1:14,20-22; 2:13-14; 1Th 5:10; 1Ti 2:6; Tit 2:14; Heb 2:9-10,17; 9:12-14,26-28; 10:10-18; 13:12; 1Pe 1:18-19; 2:24; 3:18; 1Jo 1:7; 2:2; 3:5; 4:10; Rev 1:5; 5:9]
The key thing to bear in mind about the work of Christ is that it was effectual. It actually secured and guaranteed that all for whom Christ died would have their sins washed away. The work of Christ does not merely make his people saveable, it saves them. It does not have the potential to save, it actually saves.
The vast majority of religion that comes in the name of Christ denies this, of course. They teach that the work of Christ has the potential to save, but that it doesn’t do anything in and of itself. They make the blood of Christ to be worthless and valueless, and then go on to condition salvation on the work or the will of the sinner (cf. Rom 9:17) This is the very definition of “trampling the blood of Christ underfoot.” (Heb 10:29) It is sheer blasphemy, spitting in the face of Jesus Christ. And it clearly shows that these people are enemies of the Gospel.
Again, if you have never heard the Gospel formulated this way, I urge you to take some time to consider the Scripture verses referred to here. And for more information on the effectual work of Jesus Christ, be sure to read the articles Christ Crucified:God’s Love Manifested, The Atonement, Gospel Resurrection, The Satisfaction, and the sermon True and False Gospel, all by Marc D. Carpenter.
May 17, 2010
The Definition of the Gospel, pt. 1
Before we can expose the enemies of the Gospel, we need to have a definition of the Gospel. This definition will serve as a standard for judging if, and when, a doctrine (and anyone who defends it) is in opposition to the Gospel (Isa 28:17).
I subscribe to the Christian Confession of Faith, and it defines the Gospel this way:
The gospel is God’s promise to save His people, giving them all the blessings of salvation from regeneration to final glory, conditioned exclusively on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, totally apart from the sinner’s works and efforts. It reveals the righteousness of God – how God is just to justify the ungodly based on the work of Jesus Christ alone. The gospel is not merely the fact that Jesus lived, died, and rose again, considered apart from the purpose of these truths, which were accomplished to establish a righteousness for all whom Jesus represented. [Gen 15:5-6; Psa 103:2-12; 130:3-4; Isa 1:18; 45:21-25; Jer 33:14-16; Mat 1:21; Joh 3:16; Act 13:32-39; Rom 1:16-17; 3:21-26; 4:5-8,13-25; 10:4,15; 1Co 15:1-8; 2Co 1:20; 5:21; Eph 1:3-2:22; 3:6; Col 1:5; 2Ti 1:1,9-10; Heb 10:4-17]
Obviously, there are a lot of implications to this definition of the Gospel, and the rest of the Confession goes over them in great detail. If this is a definition of the Gospel that you have never seen before, I strongly encourage you to take some time to study the Scripture references, and read the rest of the Confession. For more information on specific parts of this definition, please see the article Essential Gospel Doctrine, which is a compilation of sermons preached be Marc D. Carpenter.
