February 19, 2012
Peter Pike vs. the Gospel, pt. 1
Back in 2002 I had an e-mail exchange with Peter Pike, known as “CalvinDude”. He posted the first exchange on his site, thecalvinist.com, which is now defunct; but the exchange has been reposted.
Lord willing, I will post the first exchange (along with some of Pike’s comments) here, and the rest of it in the coming weeks.
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[Peter Pike] I was recently sent an e-mail from one of the fine gentlement [sic] at outsidethecamp.org. Yes, I speak sarcastically, as anyone who has had contact with these people will understand. Before I comment, let me just reproduce for you what I received below:
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From: “Christopher Adams” <chris_a@********>[edited by PWP]
To: <debates@thecalvinist.com>
Cc: “Marc D. Carpenter” <romans9@*********>[edited by PWP]
Subject: Arminians Saved?
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:46:10 -0500
Mr. Pike:
You wrote: <<Calvinism is a theological point of view that is, in my opinion, the only valid Biblical interpretation. Indeed, it is the only system of theology that accurately describes the Gospel. Arminianism itself is a man-based theology that strips God of His right to be “God” and elevates man above what man should be.
However, I draw a big distinction between Arminianism and the Arminian. I firmly believe (unlike the hypercalvinists, such as those folks at www.outsidethecamp.org) that Arminians are saved, so long as they are actually Arminians and not Pelagians. I do not believe a full Pelagian is actually saved.>>
As one of THOSE people at www.outsidethecamp.org , I have a few questions:
1. Do Arminians believe in the atonement? Do they believe in the same KIND of Atonement that the Bible teaches (ie. one that takes away the sin of all for whom it is intended — Isa 45:25, Rom 3:22-26, Rom 8:1, 2Cor 5:21)? Do YOU believe in this kind of Atonement?
2. What did the Atonement actually accomplish? What does the BIBLE say the Atonement accomplished? (Acts 20:28, Rom 5:9, Gal 1:4, Tit 3:5, Heb 10:10, Rev 5:9) Is this what Arminians believe the Atonement accomplished? Is this what YOU believe the Atonement accommplished?
3. Do you believe in the doctrine of Irresistible Grace?
4. If yes, how is God able to cause a man to believe the Gospel, but (as you think) UNABLE to prevent him from believing “a man-based theology that strips God of His right to be “God” and elevates man above what man should be”?
5. Where does the Bible teach a difference between a man and his theology? How do you interpret Prov 23:7?
6. In your opinion, what is the difference between Arminianism and Pelagianism? What makes Pelagians lost but Arminians saved (in your opinion)?
7. If Calvinism “is the only system of theology that accurately describes the Gospel”, how is it that Arminians can be saved believing things directly CONTRARY to the Gospel?
8. Did you know that hypercalvinists believe that Arminians are saved? The distinguishing mark of a hypercalvinist is the belief that God regenerates people without the means of the Gospel. They then go on to argue that the Arminian could be regenerate, he just hasn’t heard the Gospel yet. Marc Carpenter has written extensively on this blasphemy: “The Irrelevant Gospel”, Outside The Camp, Vol. 5, No. 2, http://www.outsidethecamp.org/review52.htm Nov 10, 2002.
You are correct that Arminians believe “a man-based theology that strips God of His right to be “God” and elevates man above what man should be.” Apparently, so do you. The true Gospel glorifies God as both a just God and a Savior (Isa 45:21). The true Gospel is good news about the death of Jesus Christ and how it turned away the wrath of God from God’s people. But the the Arminian god is powerless to move the almighty human will into believing the gospel. The Arminian gospel is the power of man unto salvation; it glorifies man as being “like God” (Gen 3:5), and treats the blood of the Cross as being worthless, of no consequence. This is satanic.
On the other hand YOUR gospel claims to be the power of God; YOUR gospel claims to glorify God as a just God and a Savior; but your god is STILL powerless to move the almighty human will into believing things that glorify his grace. YOUR god is STILL unable to glorify himself in the hearts of his people. This is just as wicked and satanic as Arminianism.
Furthermore, you can see that Arminianism is a lie, but you still embrace such blasphemers as your brothers. Well, they ARE your brothers. Both of you are children of Satan. Repent and believe the Gospel.
http://www.outsidethecamp.org/gospelis.htm
http://www.outsidethecamp.org/gospelisnt.htm
Christopher Adams
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[Peter Pike] Obviously, right off the bat, you will notice that the “Charm Factor” is running at about a 0.3 on a scale of 1 to 1000. Normally an e-mail like this would simply be delegated to my trash-bin and ignored, but due to the fact that I have received many e-mails in the past from other people who have run into the folks, I thought it necessary to both respond to this post and post it publically for all to see. Here, therefore, is my response.
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From: <debate@thecalvinist.com>
To: “Christopher Adams”
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Child of Satan?
On Tue. 11/12/02, debate@thecalvinist.com wrote:
Mr. Adams,
It is not very often that I am referred to as a child of Satan. Since I have viewed your website in the past and have also come into contact with many people whom your organization has attacked via e-mail and the net, I really take your interest in my own site as a compliment.
You have called me a child of Satan. I was unaware that Christ had appointed you as the judge of my soul. Obviously you think I am mistaken. Because you think I am mistaken, you have said that I am a child of Satan. This has serious ramifications. Mistaken theology automatically makes one a child of Satan? If this is the case, then what do we say of Peter in the book of Galatians?
But this is only one of many errors you commit. Your statements make an understanding of Reformed Doctrine a prerequisite for salvation. That is, unless one understands total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints EXACTLY as YOU understand these points, that person is damned.
Not only is the person who misunderstands Reformed Doctrine damned in your theology, but so is the person who understands Reformed Doctrine and yet also believes Arminians are saved. Thus, it is not rightly an understanding of Reformed Doctrine that causes salvation, but an utter adherence to a strict policy of damning whoever disagrees with you that is required for salvation.
You may claim that no one who truly understands Reformed Doctrine would believe Arminians are saved. Yet when we look at your Heterodoxy Hall of Shame we find Reformer after Reformer listed, including John Calvin himself. What Reformer actually holds to your viewpoint?
You obviously misunderstand Irresistible Grace by stating: “[H]ow is God able to cause a man to believe the Gospel, but (as you think) UNABLE to prevent him from believing ‘a man-based theology that strips God of His right to be “God” and elevates man above what man should be’?” Irresistible Grace refers only to Regeneration, not Sanctification. The question you asked, however, gives us great insight into your beliefs. The question you asked demonstrates that you have not thought out your own theology very well. How is it that God is able to cause you to believe the Gospel and yet not fully sanctify you such that you will never sin again? Do you sin, Christopher Adams? If so, why? Does not God have the power?
The above point demonstrates that Sanctification is a seperate process from Justification. The Arminian, though justified, is not fully sanctified (nor is the Reformed believer), and as such will not hold to 100% accurate theology. This does not damn the Arminian, for he has been justified. The process of Sanctification will lead him to the truth.
In your zeal, you have corrupted the Gospel from the Good News about how men are saved by Christ. Rather than salvation by faith, you preach a salvation by full understanding of all the intricate workings of God. Rather than having justification as the determining factor in a person’s salvation, you require advanced sanctification. Rather than Christianity, you promote Gnosticism, whereby a secret knowledge is possessed only by you and everyone who disagrees is damned. This is the work of cult members, not Christianity.
Now since you e-mailed me at debates@thecalvinist.com, my e-mail address reserved for those wishing to debate, I am not only going to post your letter and my response on my site, but I will also challenge you to debate these issues and post the debate on your site. I will certainly post it on mine.
PWP
http://www.thecalvinist.com
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[Chris Adams] … to be continued, Lord willing.
For more information, please see:
The Damnable Heresy of Arminianism
